After long time, I opened the SAJHA.COM home page. I saw on the home page "A MESSAGE FROM SAJHA" . It is really admirable and thanks to sajha for its contribution to eliminate the caste discrimination system. Not only in Nepal, even in US and abroad there is big caste discrimination among Nepalese people. It is really shameful thing and a big obstacle for the civilization. If this kind of discrimination remains longer then in future there will be big fight at foreign land. So, it is wise to discourage the caste discrimination and everybody should to know all nepalese are same. SAJHA.COM has added a strong and big brick to discourage the casteism. THANKS SAJHA.

Unfortunately it is very difficult for many people to come to terms with their casteism since they are born with it. Everytime we are introduced, we can't help asking for the last name - which is an attempt to classify the person according to his/her caste.

It is always discouraging to hear people talk of 'typical bahuns, newars, gurungs,..' which only shows their unwillingness to accept themselves as equal peers to other Nepalis. It's sadder when people have lived outside of Nepal for many years yet they can't seem to get rid of their - 'I'm a better kind of Nepali than those kind of Nepalis' or 'I'm a cooler Nepali than those kind of Nepalis' feelings. If even those outside of Nepal find it hard to get rid of their discriminatory beliefs, I wonder how long it will take in Nepal itself.

The caste system is not going away until the government takes steps to abolish it. Media is an important intermediary for this process as well.

Well said san.
Revival

Well said San. Just some thoughts/queries based on what you said,and hopefully this thread will allow some insights to our social structure:
1. Can we abolish the caste system without abolishing the caste?

2. What would be the repercussion of not having a caste? Would people readily relinquish their last names given that the last names are the red flags for chaste identification?

Well said San. Just some thoughts/queries based on what you said,and hopefully this thread will allow some insights to our social structure:
1. Can we abolish the caste system without abolishing the caste?

2. What would be the repercussion of not having a caste? Would people readily relinquish their last names given that the last names are the red flags for chaste identification?

aba Sitara jyu le malai sodheko ta hoina, tyahi pani pyachha ma mero bichar bhani halun ki? anyatha nalinu hola..

1. Yes, we can. First of all, the governmnet ha sto encourage/vigorously promote inter-cate/inter racial marriages. Give people some incentives for exogamous (sp?) marriages, people will do it. Franz Boiss's idea ho yo.. Ruth Benedict ko guru ko...

2. People will still retain their last names.. and like in every Patriarchas (sp?) society, the lineage will follow the father's last name, however, those names will be of less and less importance. When the whole nation is mixed, who cares about your last name? You can be a rai with Indo-Aryan features, a Sharma with oriental features..

Well said San. Just some thoughts/queries based on what you said,and hopefully this thread will allow some insights to our social structure:
1. Can we abolish the caste system without abolishing the caste?

2. What would be the repercussion of not having a caste? Would people readily relinquish their last names given that the last names are the red flags for chaste identification?

aba Sitara jyu le malai sodheko ta hoina, tyahi pani pyachha ma mero bichar bhani halun ki? anyatha nalinu hola..

1. Yes, we can. First of all, the governmnet ha sto encourage/vigorously promote inter-cate/inter racial marriages. Give people some incentives for exogamous (sp?) marriages, people will do it. Franz Boiss's idea ho yo.. Ruth Benedict ko guru ko...

2. People will still retain their last names.. and like in every Patriarchas (sp?) society, the lineage will follow the father's last name, however, those names will be of less and less importance. When the whole nation is mixed, who cares about your last name? You can be a rai with Indo-Aryan features, a Sharma with oriental features..

Patriarchas = Patriarchal ( i never learned to spell this word, even when I was taking anthro classes... aksto garo sabda ho baba!)

Always a pleasure to read you IF. I recall Boiz said that and so did DuBois on discrimination issues in US.
But I recall the theory and to paraphrase: "a drop of black blood makes him/her black and not the other way around". Many still subscribe to that. To give an example, I have some blond haired, blue-eyed "black" children (a throw back on their genes) who call themselves black. The situation of Caste may not be the same as we are talking not talking about visible color. The thought issues about caste is also ingrained within religion, cultural practise and tradition that we are looking at a whole chunk of de-construction here.

Cast System is bad...to abolish cast is bad.
Well i believe it's ok to ask last name if don't mean to discriminate and no harm. I don't want to drop my last name. I am proud of it. I mean come on...It's my identity afterall...
As long as you respect ppl for who they are... asking last name shouldn't be an issue.

well looking at above posting i feel like sharing this story with u
kind of good one:)

following scene took place on british airways flight between johannesburg and london.a white woman,about 50 yrs old ,was seated next to a black man.obviously disturbed by this,she called the airline hostess.madam,what is the matter,the hostess asked.you obviously do not see it then?she responded.you placed me next to a black man. i do not agree to sit next to someone from such a repugnant group.give me an alternate seat. be calm please,the hostess replied.almost all the places on this flight are taken. i will go to see if another place is avialable.the hostess went awat and then came back few min later.madam,just ass i thought,there are no other available seats in the economy class.i spoke to captain and he informed me that there is also no seat in business class. all the same,we still have one place in first class.before the woman could say anything,the hhostess continued.it is not unusal for our company to permit someone from economy class to sit in the first class however,given the circumstances,the cpatain feels that it would be scandoulous to make someone sit next to someone sooooo dicgusting .she turned to black guy ,and said.therefore,sir,it would be our pleasure if u would take your hand lauggage and come with me coz a seat awaits u in first class.at moment,the other passenger who were schocked by what they had just witnessed stood up and applauded.this is true story which is not usually told.

The thought issues about caste is also ingrained within religion, cultural practise and tradition that we are looking at a whole chunk of de-construction here.


I think caste issue is a lot more easier to resolve and get rid off than the race issue. Religiously, most of us are Hindus. Cultural practices are, for the most part, the same. People won't tryt to change teh scoial hierarchy by themselves. If I remember what I learned in my anthro classes correctly.. (hehehe jhandai anthro major bhako ma, once upon a time), all our rituals area way to enforce and re-enforce teh class hierarchy in teh society that gets violated during our day-to-day activities. So to make up for all that violations, we invent traditions and rituals.. (yestai ajsto lagcha..). So tradition is a man-made thing, it can be chnaged. Of course, there will be both short term and long trem resistances from the people, but it's doable and only the necessary evil with a monopoly on violence, can do it, because people fear the state.

Tradition, culture have been changed in many places. Our Nepali culture has changed a lot too in the last 50 eayrs.

Cultures/traditions change beacuse of 2 reasons:

1. the society adapts new ways/thinking itslef
2. the society is forced to adapt new ways/thinking

In both cases, there will be some "resistance" (active ressitacne and passive). Active ressitance will be an outright refusal to adapt the new thinking especially if its forced. The pasive resitance is more reflected in new rituals that develop overtime. People will find ways to recreate their tradition through rituals. Caste hierarchy will be recreated in those short-duration rituals and no one can stop it. Its how cultures work. After the rituals, people again go back to their work/contemporary reality/surroundings and wait for another month/year for the ritual to again unconsiously recreate te trditional hieracrhy.


Mero bichar.. ma

Active ressitance will always be a short lived one. The passive ressitance will lead to develop new tradition and rituals. Aihwa [W]Ong ahs done a great study on the passive ressitance among the Malaysian working women. In the Forgotten Kigdoms (forgot the author.. aaja bhanda 7 barsa aagdi pahdeko...), there's a brief information on the Naxi (a Chinese minority group from Yunnan) passive resisttance to Han and Qing culture (although not in a very anthropological manner).

1. Can we abolish the caste system without abolishing the caste?

----> Yes we can.

2. What would be the repercussion of not having a caste? Would people readily relinquish their last names given that the last names are the red flags for chaste identification?

---------> An unfortunate repercussion, if we ever abolish the caste system could be that, we might loose our cultural heritage along with our culture. Every caste has a special culture attached to it, creating so many wonderful creative oeuvres which helps us in one way or another to keep our personal identity apart from just mentioning we are from the land of Mt. Everest and Buddha. This in my belief could be the sterling unfortunate repercussion, which would prompt me to blackball abolishing caste system. But I potently stand against caste discrimination and would obdurately (if u may) stand against it.

Incumbent situation demands a far sighted solution rather than a drastic measure to abolish/eliminate altogether. Educating, and understanding each other and respect for others for WHO they are, instead of WHAT their caste is the culture we must encourage.
I can see so many voices, echoing in so many of us young Nepalese that someday, we should achieve the perfect blend of keeping our caste and protecting our culture, but DEFINATELY eliminating a notion that "last names are the red flags for chaste identification," and any caste is superlative to another.

Mero dui sabda.. :)
Reminds me of Nana patekar in one movie... "yeh hindu ka khoon aur yehh muslim ka khoon.. ( afta mixing) ab bata ismei hindu kaun sa aur muslim ka kauna... jaab banane wale ni ismein alag nahin ki to.. tu kaun hota hein". ( Indian movie's dialogue YES, but very thought provoking, if one thinks about it)

Together we CAN,
IndisGuise:)

Well said Iso, specially the point about passive resistance. It's like acute and chronic pain.
Sitara, abolishing the caste system totally? Not only I don't see that happening and don't think that is necessary either. I guess you were just raising the point afterall, not advocating for it, were you? About that "black" kid having blond hair, I thought blond genes is thouroughbred, I mean both of your parents had to be blond to have blond hair. May be not.

SAN, appalusible effort you have undertaken. The reform has to come equally from Govt and society. Awareness is the key point. I don't know how many people will go inter-cast marriage just for the heck of getting some benefits, but there are other ways as well.

Would a Quota system, for unprivileged cast, in civil service works be a bad thing? I think we already have some forms of it implemented. Would that further enforce cast-ism or equalize it?

Nepal should have system like in India where the last names are like Peters, John. Like

Prachanda Peters
Gyanendra John