I would like to think of myself as a realist/pragmatist who believes in fairness and I wouldn’t really shed a tear (might just sulk a bit) if monarchy were to be abolished which I think is pretty inevitable given the circumstances we are in; but what I quite can’t get my head around to for the life of me is the notion that a lot of folks on here seem to harbour that the docile and benevolent king is more dangerous to peace and progress of Nepal than the Maoists. Is it any wonder then Nepal is another Afganistan in the making?

How can the benign king be juxtaposed with the Maoists who put even the talibans to shame? Maoists created the culture of violence, murder and impunity. They are culpable of having killed 15000 innocent people. To say that the country today has turned into killing fields is an understatement. The whole country is caught in a vortex of violence, terror and ethnic cleansing and more depressing is the fact that it is getting worse by the day. Numerous terrorist groups have sprung up in different parts of the country emboldened and encouraged by success that violence can bring. There is not a single day you don’t hear of a carnage and communal violence.

We also have unbelievely high tolerance towards Maoists bullying but its an unpardonable sin if the king so much as visits a temple which all of us do all the time. The maoists have publicly vowed to disrupt the CA polls and threatened to take stern actions against the people who defy them, yet there is a deafening silence from the government and public alike with regards to this threat. Imagine if the king had said this. All hell would break loose. They actually have a provision in the iterim constitution to remove the king if he is found to be conspiring against CA polls, why is there nothing of the sorts for other culprits? This is sheer hypocrisy. The king was even not allowed to visit Krishna Mandir in Patan recently.

Maoists cultivated and fostered the division of country based on ethnicity in order to make small gains but this has fractured the social fabric of the whole nation. Some terai groups have said that they will settle for nothing less than a complete cessation from Nepal. The country is on the verge of total disintegration and I will not be surprised if the country cease to exist a few years from now as you can already see the pattern developing. Nothing is right in the country today. You find nothing in Nepal that gives you solace. No petrol, no water, 11 hour load shedding, stikes, julus, chakkajams, vandalism, arson, armed robberies, shabby roads that have never been repaired since Ranas buit them.

The last 17 years of “democratic” rule led by political parties has been an absolute nightmare to say the least. The peace and harmony that once prevailed in the country is just a hazy memory now. I have even heard some people say “but that was forced peace”, which implies that the “real” peace is when people kill each other.

We had a multi-party democracy in Nepal when the Maoists decided to unleash their wave of violence and terror. These radicals believe that power really comes from the barrel of gun and unfortunately for us they have been proven right. Where does the king fit in this picture? Why is the king blamed for the incompetence of the parties? I don’t get it. He was just a ceremonial head. The king has become a perfect whipping boy for the corrupt netas. The politicians have always used the king to hide their own failures and purge their sins. More regrettably, the gullible people actually believe what the corrupt politicians tell them. This is precisely the reason why I support the monarchy in a constitutional form and not in a ceremonial form. I would rather support the abolition of the monarchy altogether than keep it in a ceremonial form. What’s the use of a ceremonial monarchy that is nothing but just symbolic ? The only purpose that a ceremonial monarchy is going to serve is for the politicians to blame the monarchy again for all the problems in the country which will of course conveniently save them from the ire of the people.

This is what happens when we cannot discern the right from the wrong. The events in my own country have made me a very cynical man. I don’t easily trust what comes out of media these days whether the matter pertains to domestic or international. I have realized that the media can never be fair and objective. They are always biased and have their own agendas. If we are to completely go by what Nepali media feed us - Maoists are the “good guys” and our king is the biggest tyrant. It wasn’t the king who killed 15000 innocent people; abducted, tortured and brutalized millions; extorted businessmen and common man alike; destroyed infrastructure worth billions; yet he is a tyrant and not the Maoists. A lie told thousand times eventually becomes a truth apparently!

The biggest tyrants and killers I know are Stalin, Hitler, Mao tse tung, Idi Amin, Kim jong Ill, Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Pol pot etc - the maoist leader of Cambodia who killed a third of his country’s population. Incidentally, none of them are monarchs but “common men”.

To claim that monarchy is feudalistic, anti-peace and regressive is just a manifestation of communist mentality. Infact, the most peaceful and thriving countries have been monarchies like Denmark, Norway, Spain, Belgium, Sweden, Australia, Canada, UK, Japan, New Zealand etc. Infact, the monarch of Australia, Canada and New Zealand is not even one of their own national. Indeed a referendum was held in 1999 in Australia (a highly multi-cultural country) to decide whether or not to sever ties with the monarch who lives thousands of miles away, yet they decided keep to it.

Most people assume (brainwashed by the media of couse) that removing the king and declaring the country republic will solve all the problems of Nepal. I find that highly ludicrous. It will only open a can of worms. Nepal will plunge into a disaster of calamitous proportions. As morning shows the day, look at how things are with the king being virtually incapacitated. Do you truly believe that the political parties and Maoists will save Nepal? They will just tear the country into pieces as a pack of savage hyenas tear a carcass. Mark my words. The biggest genocides in the history of mankind have occurred in Republics not in monarchies. Congo, Sudan, Rwanda, Liberia etc are all republics. These countries have been mired in ethnic violence and civil war for years and millions of innocent people have been killed and rendered homeless.

Look at what happened to Afganistan, Iran and of course who can forget Sikkim when monarchy was removed. The people in those countries say that the biggest mistake they ever made was to abolish monarchy. Look at mayhem and chaos in Pakistan and Bangladesh which are also Republics. Thousands of innocent people are being murdered in those countries every day and now they have the military running the country to try and control the situation.

..panchayat days were way better than present days. at least people were living with peace.

Wow Samsara - you've opened my eyes, please keep dropping such pearls of wisdom for lesser mortals like us

I did not open your eyes, you yourself did when you decided to read my post. And IMHO, lesser mortals = commies only. Pls don't degrade yaself!!

if you own something and you dear it than - Monarchy
If you have nothing to loose and poor - Maoist.

lokman, no matter how nicely you put your words, why do you think people aren't convinced?
Is it because most of us are less educated, unenlightened than you guys who have a soft corner towards monarchy?
I don't think so. People have witnessed the exploitations of monarchy since centuries. They have seen our country going nowhere under their hundreds of years of rule. They have witnessed the feuds in the palace. They have witnessed the conspiracies between the courtiers. They have witnessed the Narayanhiti massacre. They have seen favouritism, nepotism, cronyism, dishonesty, immorality, corruption, embezzlement spread from the palace to the rest of the entities over the centuries. Were the congress or the UML or the Maoists responsible for the disreputed history that the later generations of the Shah dynasty earned for themselves?

How on earth can we compare the present monarchies of Commonwealth and Scandinavia with that of Nepal? There was a time in the history of Britain that can be compared, and that was after the middle of the seventeenth century when Britain was declared a republic for a brief period. After that, the Kings and Queens never messed up with the parliament and hence they are surviving till today.

Our royals have too many times undermined the people, their freedom, their sovereign rights. Mahendra did it, Birendra did it and Gyanendra did it. It is not people's fault that they don't have any sympathy for monarchy today. Gyanendra himself paved the way for his downfall more than any others. Or am I wrong?

Oh he can go to any temples, can do anything a civilian is entitled to do even after the republic. I am sure he can stand in elections too. People have just stripped him off the extra powers and privileges he had been enjoying undeservedly, that's it.

Today the nation is in transition, in the biggest phase of transformation in our history. Hence so many upheavals. Britain, France, America, India all have already gone through this process. Unfortunately we have just arrived at this fork in the road. Like the way people have tamed the Monarchy, they will tame the Maoists too. I am sure it won't take that long to tame these Maoists. And the crooks in other political parties too. In due time they will get the dividends of their deeds.

btw did you read about the trial of Nuon Chea in Cambodia? I don't think he had foreseen 2007 when the Khmer Rouge was in power. Right now, our country is in turmoil. But I think there will be light in the end of the tunnel.

Neither Monarchy nor Maoist.
Both were working together to distablize frigile democracy before King Birendra was assassinated.(see the article of Dr. Babu Ram Bhattarai on Kantipur and TKP of June 6, 2001) and now again have common agenda to disrupt the CA election. The bomb blast in Kathamandu and communal voilences in Kapilvastu and sorroudings are the few examples of their cooperation and joint works.

Rohitgrg, you say: "Today the nation is in transition..."

This is friggin Bull shit. When was the last time the King had direct authoritaive powers? As per anyone's knowledge, it was 17 years ago (as the brief year and a half stint 2 years ago was marred with opposition and protests for any kind of action Gyane could even dream of undertaking). For you to say that the nation is in a transition today is a misnomer to the higest degree. We have been in a transition for the past 17 years and the situation has gotten worse than when it first started. At this negative trend (anyone in finance/trading would say that the trend is your friend), it is only plausible that our nation would be in the nadirs within the next decade or so at the very least!! Monarchy is a better option than a failed system of communism anyday.

Samsara that is your point of view, which I disagree. And I find it no worth discussing with you when you start with 'this is frigging bullshit'.
Why do you think people were against Gyane before and are against Monarchy now? Why did millions poured into the streets against him? Were they bullshitting? The problem with dictators is that they think everyone else are bullshits. And in these terms, there is not much difference between you and the commies. Don't take it hard mate :)

If the people think Monarchy is worth keeping, they will save it. So don't worry for Gyane.

rohitgrg, you said:

"Why did millions poured into the streets against him? Were they bullshitting?"

hey man i hate to sound like a smart a$$ but do we really want to judge the intelligence of nepali riot crowd and take it for any kind of face value?? as sad as it may sound the pouring into the streets and the strikes have become part of their daily lives. so it really makes me question the true essence of these street protests.

aren't these the same crowd that chanted slogan against king birendra and then later shave their heads in mourning upon his death?? weren't these the same crowd that continued their pourning into the streets regardless of who was in the government. and i believe these are the same group of people that destroyed millions worth of public and private property for some bollywood actor allegedly saying something offensive about nepali people.

so let's take the millions pourining into the street for what it is worth...as it has become part of their lives and they will continue to do this for any and every reason / cause unless there is a solution to may be unemployment??

grg's and other minorities are usualy anti monarch. I am against monarchy but i don't mind keeping it ceremonial just as a symbolic play against communism and retaining the historical hindu culture.

I wouldn't say monarchy is the best option but can you delete that one line offensive. mr. rohit is running away from answering.

There has never been a true integration in nepal. ...far less 10 years back. Nepal has never seen a true communal harmony.We have always experienced hidden communal hatred for centuries ....so much that it has only now got its form to errupt.
Only now people are seeking for answers on so much of hidden communal feelings and insecurity for their own community.Why...? everyone knows the answer....so no need to fake that there has always been a communal integration in Nepal....far less in the old system. If there was ....maoists would have never been able to make their ways into areas where the old system had always overlooked.

Be it monarchism or be it maoism unlesss there is a true representation of all the communities in the country .... there is never going to be a true integration of Nepal.

And unless there is true integration of nepal....some form of maoism or whatsoever would always crop in.

Be it monarchism or be it maoism or be it koiralism ...it's just the name. We should look at the 'Cause' and the need of the present nepal.

Whoever can bring the true representation of the masses....that would eventually suceed.
Monarchy....who do they represent...shahs and ranas?
Koirala....Bahuns and Pandit??
Maoists....yet to see??

Proportional representation would only bring true integration in Nepal.
Whoever supports this agenda the most...i would support them...be it Monarch , be it maoist or be it koirala.

Once we make a stong infrastructure, the system will be effective. Once the system is effective,we do not need to fear whether it be maoist or the king. They will be filtered out from the system once the infrastucture is effective.

After going through all the comments, I agree with DREAMZ, the question is not which one is better than other the question is
1) WHERE DO WE STAND RIGHT NOW?
2) Are we aware of our rights?

First of all people should be well educated to reach to this point and to know what is their rights, they should be capable to know what can they do. Once they are more civilized I guess Nepalese people will easily know how to move ahead. Unnecessary elements will be filtered out easily if it is against the unity of the country no matter if it is a king or Maoist.
Thanks all.. it is a nice brain storming...

Maoists target=_blank>http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Editorials/Maoists_and_the_monarch/articleshow/2387974.cms


Maoists and the monarch
21 Sep, 2007, 0000 hrs IST, TNN

The decision of the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) to quit the interim Cabinet — after Prime Minister Koirala refused to give in to its demand that the monarchy be abolished by the interim legislature — is disappointing.

More disturbing is its resolve to obstruct the November 22 constituent assembly polls. To have an interim legislature abolish the monarchy would lead to a crisis of legitimacy for the nascent constitutional-democratic process. The reasonable course of action for the Maoists now would be to go back to the Cabinet and leave it to the constituent assembly to decide the future of the monarchy.

It’s unlikely that a representative constituent assembly would confer anything more than a ceremonial status on the monarchy. The CPN(M) knows that all too well. Why else would a committed republican force like it have dared to pledge its unqualified acceptance of a future constituent assembly’s verdict on the monarchy?

Clearly, its change of tack is a response to concerted attempts by pro-monarchy elements to subvert the democratic process in Nepal. The latter have, among other things, been abetting the Madhesis in their violent conflict with the Maoists in the terai region.

And a sharpening ideological struggle between the pro-republican and ‘pro-revolution’ sections within the CPN(M) has only served to further reinforce its hard line. The Nepali Congress-led seven party alliance needs to do its bit to inspire trust in the constitutional-democratic process. The interim government should, without any dither, crack down on anti-democracy mischief mongers.

Any attempt by Maoists to short-circuit the constitutional process would severely erode the political capital they accumulated by joining the democratic mainstream. Worse, their recalcitrance would only help the pro-monarchy forces reclaim lost ground by delegitimising the republican cause. The BJP and its sangh parivar siblings should, meanwhile, desist from aiding the Madhesis against the Maoists. Their agenda of conserving the world’s last ‘Hindu’ kingdom is turning out to be a dangerous zero sum game.

target=_blank>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Maoists_deny_hand_in_Nepal_riots/articleshow/2391729.cms

Maoist Deny hand in Nepal riot

KATHMANDU: As violence continued to ravage south Nepal five days after the catalytic murder of a local don by unidentified assailants, Nepal's Maoists on Friday strongly denied any involvement in the ensuing arson, looting and killings, and said that most of the nearly 30 people killed were their supporters or cadre.

Though curfew remained clamped in sensitive villages in Kapilavastu district, the epicentre of the violence, and in neighbouring Dang and Rupandehi where the arson and looting spread, at least three more people died on Thursday after the rally in which they were taking part was attacked.

In its preliminary report on the Kapilavastu violence, that assumed the nature of riots targeting mosques, Nepal's National Human Rights Commission said it had verified the death of 21 people while the local media put the toll at 31.

Though the needle of suspicion first pointed towards the Maoists, their chief Prachanda issued a statement, saying his party had no hand in the riots. "Nearly two dozen of our supporters and dozens of innocent citizens were killed, the homes of hundreds were torched and thousands displaced in a premeditated terror attack," Prachanda said. "We take serious note of the attempt being made by some regressive elements to drag us into it directly or indirectly."

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So, Why are maoist supporters being killed if they are not involved.

Didn't it all start with killing of Mohit Khan a anti-maoist leader ?

What a coincidence....

“People have witnessed the exploitations of monarchy since centuries. They have seen our country going nowhere under their hundreds of years of rule”

 

 

This is a platitudinous line we are constantly assailed with in order to get us to believe erroneously that monarchy is evil. What “exploitations” are you talking about?

 

I have never heard of kings, past or present, who condemned people in their millions to rigorous labour camps a la Kim Jung Ill, Moa tse tung, Polpot and Prachanda. I have never heard of kings who killed people just because they belonged to a different ethnic group a la Saddam Hussein and Hitler.

 

Empirical evidences prove that monarchs have always been moderate in their disposition and benevolent at heart. The biggest despots and killers have always been commoners that rose to power and never the monarchs. 

  

Besides, the period (230 years) that you talk about was a whole different era altogether that was fraught with wars and great human sufferings beyond measurement. Despite that, the Nepali monarchs never really put Nepalis through the same kind of miseries and pains that many barbarous dictators around the world in that period are known to have afflicted on their people.

 

It is highly disingenuous to compare today’s world to an era when native Americans in America or for that matter aboriginies in Australia were slaughtered like animals. That was an era when slavery was a legalized practice and people were bought and sold like cattle. These are things that would be absolutely unimaginable today.  

 

You can’t really blame the kings if there were no internet, computers, monile phones, cable tv etc back in those days. They did not exist in other countries too. They are just a recent phenomenon. Seriously, since when did we have the internet? Not until mid 90s.

 

Yes, the royal family was the most privileged but isn’t a president or a prime minister? Do we hate them just because they are a privileged lot? Look at Girija and Prachanda. They have become at least a million times more powerful than the king ever was as a ceremonial head. If we were “scared” of the limited powers that the king enjoyed as a ceremonial head, we have exchanged him for bloodthirsty monsters with unbridled powers. Talk about irony. What ever Girija and Prachanda enunciate becomes a law. They decide single handedly when the CA elections ought to take place flouting the anti-people interim constitution they themselves wrote. After having squandered almost 2 billion rupees that this poor nation can ill afford, they have again deferred the date for CA elections for the third time.

 

Seriously, what did we expect from these corrupt netas? They have already proved us beyond a shred of doubt that all that they care about is their own selfish interests. They will just let the nation bleed to death as long as it’s not them who has to suffer but the people.

 

At least, the monarchy in Nepal gave us the nationhood. There would be no Nepal on the world map had it not been for the work and efforts put in by the monarchy. What are the contributions of Girija, Prachanda, Baburam Bhattarai, Lilamani Pokhrel, Bamdev Gautam, Govidna raj Joshi, Chiranjivi Wagle et al to Nepal? Nepal under these corrupt netas has hit a rock-bottom.

 

Remember, the monarchy safeguarded our sovereignty through all these years from all sorts of threats. That was a period when the whole world was engulfed by colonialism and people were oppressed and treated like animals by their colonial masters.

 

Infact, during monarchial rule Nepal was among the richer countries. Certainly richer than many countries in Asia that have leapfrogged Nepal in recent years. Today we are the second most poorest country on earth and a recent report by transparency international has shown that the country has slipped further down the ladder in the rankings compared to last year for countries worst affected by corruption.

doesnt matter whatever we say here...  nepal's future has always been in the hands of few people (from panchayat tantra to maobaaditatra) .. and they will decide our country's fate. We should never make our netas stronger than our judiciary system. As we sow so we mow. Nepal will remain divided as long as we have these netas.

some of the comments were painful.. but true.

"We should never make our netas stronger than our judiciary system"
This makes a lot of sense!
Nobody, absolutely no body, should be above the law.
The LAW has to treat everyone equally.

We need to first make this LAW, the Bill of Rights, a "constitution", whatever you might want to call it.

The idea is simple, the leaders our country are there to serve the people NOT rule, "public servants". This idea seems to be non existent in Nepal.

So I dont care if we have monarchy or moabadi in the government as long as our Judiciary System is Strong, Fair, and enforced thought the country.
I will support that party.

Monarchy or the maoists? It’s something like you are asking if we would like to be on the pan or on fire. Talking about Monarchy VS the maoists, one is the hot pan and the other is the red hot charcoal. You want to be the steak or grilled? Of course, neither monarchy nor the maoists can be the choice of average people who want to breathe in an open air. But we can not dismiss monarchy and the maoists simply like that. Both of them have some hold, more or less, in our society and it’s not possible to eliminate them overnight.

The king stepped down and now we have parliament and the parties in the government. Rebel Maoists, in a way came into political mainstream but besides do we see any other improvements? While, the Maoists seemed to be coming on the track, Terai and ethnic issues are bulging out. The main problems lay in the grassroots level and will keep coming out in this or that form, no matter the parties form alliance in the center level. Now, the ethnic and Terai issues are so rampant that our national sovereignty is under threat and the country is towards disintegration. But, we always see the hands of either royalists or the Maoists in every incident and totally overlook the main problems.

While the maoist ideology is totally wrong and that is not the future of Nepal, but the ground they are standing on is genuine. Nepalese people bear the Rana regime of 104 years, Kings rule of more than 30 years and also experienced the democratic parties and still, there is not much change in their socio economic status. So? Anybody who talks about revolution and total change, of course, people will follow them.

And monarchy, which has the root of more than 250 years, can not be abolished in a day or two. Of course, we can declare the country republic, but of course, there will be bloodshed in the country and are we prepared for that? Earlier, I used to be critic of Girija for being against republican country but now I see that he was right. A peaceful transformation in the course of time is better than an abrupt declaration of republican state that drowns the country in the pool of the blood.  Particularly, while foreign countries are taking so much interest in our internal matters, we have to be very careful on every decision we take in our country. I think, there should not be any debate like Maoists or Monarchy? Monarchy or Parties and so forth. These neighboring and so called friendly countries would oppose or support for some reason that would benefit only them, not us. India, supporting absolute monarchy in Bhutan and supporting republican nepal doesn't mean anything. Similarly, as long as Parvez Mussarraf allies with USA, he is fine irrespective of his being military chief.

Today, the country is in a crossroad and under a serious turmoil and everybody should work together.